Ive found ppl out before. A lot of people see the impactful work that happens at these big companies and assume that's the impact they'll make as well. If one is switching for more or less equal pay, I am with you. There are two big differences. > That's an incredible paycut, I'm sorry. It's "I never could have ever gotten this, and not only is my life set, the people around me are too". You're probably using electricity from a power company that is exploiting people in some way or maybe you bought solar panels from a company that exploited people to fabricate those panels. Your manager will think ten times before putting your name. For comparison, in France, 10% of people inherit more than 500K without doing nothing. What is the dirt on Meta? TikTok is also shit. I'm retired now and building my own lifestyle company. Buy calls if you th, Firing half the workforce without even the decency to put your name on the generic email sent out? If you tried to help someone who was unhappy and at risk of leaving for another vendor, but not someone who plays golf with your boss's boss, you risk getting a DSAT from them, but no credit if you retain that client. Its a contract, you can take pride in your work, but at the end of the day its a business deal and its about money. But "collectivism" isn't a 20th century dog-whistle boogeyman so I can see why it dodged your reactionary tendencies. Maybe I've been in big tech for too long but this actually seems like reasonable advice to me (delivered in a snarky way). the real advice is more nuanced and probably not Meta-specific, real answer right here based on my experience. I'm not even sure I have that ability if we're being honest. Do you really care by any chance your personal laptop be hacked via meltdown? Poverty can be very traumatic (and very motivating to never go into it again). 2 ways to succeed at huge companies There is a minimum amount of maintenance needed. It's the inner and dirtiest aspects of the software engineer ego. New. of candidates. #deletetwitter #twitter #tech. Exceptions are made for candidates in New York City ($175,000) and San Francisco ($185,000) for L5 and above. *Inclined candidates looking for team match are welcomed*L7 reqs are open. A product manager is a visionary who guides new product ideas from an initial concept to a full-blown product launch. So you're at least E6 and less than 30 or/and you join the companies when stocks were low. shares or not, I'd prefer to work for a company where I felt I was part of it as opposed to one that's just time served. - Those that will find product market fit and sell things, - Those that are pushing the vanguard of tech. A Senior Product Manager's Answer: "I want to work for Amazon for several reasons: 1. Really hate this alien now. Amazon pip - Blind Again, companies shy away from demoting people as they return from leave. Instead, if you stay in your company, you are already deeply-rooted. Age means nothing? The time to acquire a fellowship seems to be a couple years. 3. https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-orders-twitter-cut-infrastructure-costs-by-1-bln-sources-2022-11-03/ Which cloud provider does Twitter use? Some have close friends and family impacted by it. That person would make L5 at AWS easily, but L6 will be harder without a somewhat lenient manager/reviewer. I see it as a culture problem but do not wish to use violence to correct it. In AWS, many orgs have manger to senior manager to director to VP to SVP to CEO. Eventually there will be someone who makes a spreadsheet, sorts by a column, and makes a decision based on what they see. Product Startup with 6 levels of management? How long has she been there? For example, a Director of Extraction has an average base salary of $100,000. I'm not sure what the path to fixing this is, or if it even needs to be fixed, but I do think that Steve Jobs created a cult of innovation and a beacon to aspire towards creativity-wise, even if he wasn't the most pleasant person to interact with. If your manager is not matured enough than leave but if it is you than please stay and stay calm. Very true. He is a complete and total ass clown, he is everything wrong with the modern world and capitalism. If you take this logic to its extreme you can justify anything if it makes you rich. I work at Meta, my opinions are my own, and I'm speaking to this point in general, not specific to my time at Meta. full stop. 6 years of business development (revenue .L6 would be 15% lower and L8, 15% higher.I've been an L5, L6, L7 and L8 at Amazon over the last 10 years. Sign-on $75k. My manager preached all ideal things that are good to hear but if you said - I spent 3 hours last night fixing a bug, hed say Nice!! Its why they are highly paid. Compare all Technical Product Manager salaries in the United States. Why waste your life away working for such a shitty culture? (his shares are collateral & will liquidat, Even the layoff handling was close to perfection. These errors are so common - hopefully I didn't do it in that parenthetical - that Google's on-site prep material included a handout specifically on this topic. *Team - tenured and mixed L4-L7, very cool people, enjoy their work. Anonymous Professional Network - Blind I think parent is alluding to the fact that "part of the family" is a framing that often serves the interests of the employer. I will not work for a company like Facebook. Report. A problem is that people are often optimizing to compensation literally right now. Oct 14, 2022 - Service Manager in Portland, OR. Google. I, I, personally, will not drive Tesla, login Twitter, use Star-chain service or take SpaceX in the future! What kind of a startup is this? You'd get bonuses and stellar performance reviews for fixing big, high-visibility problems, or many small ones that amounted to little more than clients asking us to look things up in the docs for them. That is a very interesting take, I haven't thought about things from that perspective. Metrics for everything too, many of which would require intervention in the relational database by other team members several states away that didn't reply to emails or wouldn't prioritize your requests. Description At Meta, we make advertising meaningful for everyone: for people, and for theSee this and similar jobs on LinkedIn. At the time my mgr had started doing a lot of documen, https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1585395267552960512, Stop the LinkedIn cringe on praising CEOs for classy layoffs. Fucking rockstars that rockets to L7 in 5 years exist while majority of people are stuck on 5. Plus you'd want a family before that at some point. But in order that these antagonisms, these classes with conflicting economic interests, might not consume themselves and society in fruitless struggle, it became necessary to have a power, seemingly standing above society, that would alleviate the conflict and keep it within the bounds of order; and this power, arisen out of society but placing itself above it, and alienating itself more and more from it, is the state.". If you think I wouldn't be able to commute for 2 hours every day for 2.5x salary so i could save up MY ENTIRE CURRENT SALARY IN A YEAR, you have massive blinders preventing you from realising how privileged of a status it'll be. The one true savior is now on hiring freeze Amazon pauses hiring for corporate workforce https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/03/amazon-pauses-hiring-for-corporate-workforce.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard, Most of the new joiner SWE in 2022 are being put in the lowest rating quota by managers. Just like this post says, it doesn't matter what is best long-term or what is good for company/customer, all that matters is what you are graded on. Senior Technical Security GRC Remote. The issue is, if you put in effort to make valuable contributions, and your manager doesn't care at all about them, and harp on the fact that your metrics aren't met so you'll get 0 RSU, 1% Bonus, and 2% hike, well then things like this will happen. there is no way most people do anything that is worth being visible. - do average or below average work, but communicate it great and get in 'face time' without actually doing something. *Visibility of these positions is up to L10+. Going all in on 360s is a good way to unleashing reality tv dynamics in a previously banal workplace. Well, it's not like people join Meta to "make the world a better place" lol. Experienced in building 0 to 1 products, seeding strategy shifts/ product pivots, and growing/ scaling early-stage products. Spending those earnings on things that do not improve the commonwealth is what is being discussed in this thread. At the better ones, innovative work will be tolerated, too. It's already easy enough to get nothing done in a big tech company but test code can take this to another level. Salary estimated from 3 employees, users, and past and present job advertisements on Indeed in the past 36 months. I've heard such an opinion so many times that I'm always skeptical on whether this is just the popular thing to say. I finally found one which offered me 85% of what I made. I definitely had to hunt, most small startups offered me about 60% of what I made. > If you're a good engineer and can sell your work, contribute visibly to open source projects in your area of expertise and can present at conferences you'll have more opportunities than a worker bee at FAANG. So, by some metrics, I guess I am in the top 1-5% of developers, but those metrics are sketch. Their demographic is totally not representative or the workforce, and it's not just a coincidence. Im sure someone was tracking metrics but I never had to worry about metrics and have just focused on my development role. Its communism. Learn about Amazon , including insurance benefits, retirement benefits, and vacation policy. When I've heard of this kind of thing working it's almost always informal and not pushed down from upper management. Put differently: if you were hired for a certain job, and your personal convictions don't align with that job such that you don't identify as someone who wants to "hit those metrics", find another job. To compile this ranking, Statista surveyed 150,000 full-time and part-time workers from 57 countries working for multinational companies and institutions to determine which ones excel in corporate impact and image, talent development, gender equality and social responsibility. I think your boogeyman radar is off. But lots of SWEs get pushed out in their 50s or don't manage to work in fast pace / high pay environments for decades. There are many other factors that should be taken into consideration with a job, because burning yourself out before you are 50 just so you can maybe hope to retire early isn't always worth it, and isn't guaranteed to even actually work out. This is a clear indicator of first to market gets all the money. You know it's sinking ship when your own employees say that. Again, you are just mistaken - I'm not sure if this is a tech industry coping mechanism, or what. I have a sign above my monitor that reads The Goal Is To Not Have To Work. In my experience, working in startups for a couple of decades, this is nothing like normal. You're simultaneously criticizing a system while defending your participation in it. Currently work at Amazon in Ops but looking to make a move into consulting. I've also seen changes for larger projects with multiple reviewers miss an important piece because each reviewer assumed it was a change the other person looked at. I save much more than 50k a year, and yes its social status changing money and no I dont feel out of league with my friends who are doctors. And if the metrics are wrong. That TC would involve moving to SV and the associated costs of living in SV - specially housing. @Apple, that depends on the state I believe. It's the only one of the FAANGs where simply juking metrics isn't enough to get ahead, and you have to deliver customer impact in a reasonably robust way to succeed. > Why can't anyone figure out how to make that work? However, ordinary customers can't perceive the difference in their daily usage and don't care at all. Take full advantage of this. Total Compensation. While this may be true, it's also the problem with large software companies. It's endemic in retail banking. I don't want to work for FAANG for various reasons, but their negative externalities are either things I'd have no connection with or be in a position to push back against. So many assumptions here that are simply wrong. P.S. I'm leaving to pursue personal ventures after the new year and frankly am never coming back to Amazon. Compensation and benefits are the important part of human Do any of the FAANGs actually qualify for this? The core ideas of being your own PR department -- and hopping from one short-horizon metric to another are just how these places hand out recognition, promotions, etc. This person is getting a lot of snarky responses, but all of this is relatively true at Amazon also and it was true when I was at Intel 10 years ago. As you get above that number of reports, the manager is splitting their attention to the point that hot/cold spots are inevitable. I would know, I am from one of those cultures. And I'm from France, which is a pretty wealthy first world country. Alright, let's consider this: my current gross salary is at 47k . Glassdoor is your resource for information about Amazon benefits and perks. Layoffs are starting to ramp up. Down2Earth its not naive its true. But off late his antics and especially lack of empathy makes me feel differ. Was a big fan of Elon Musk. I think it's relevant for consumer products where changes are easily measurable, and especially relevant for data-focused teams (growth teams, ML teams), similar to leetcode-style interviews, no one likes it, but when pressed no one can really come up with a better method (that doesn't open the company up for discrimination lawsuits, which is sadly important). Netflix of eight years ago rewarded real engineering work (I left then so I don't know how it is now). Some are personally impacted by it. In my experience, Apple was not like this. Not to help in improving the employee and less than 2-5% get out of it. Being on a good team is 100x more important than what you're paid. My concern is also the social dynamics that "TC or bust" people engender around them. Doesnt seem that far off. Microsoft says a Sony deal with Activision stops Call of Duty A lot of us switched jobs during the pandemic and ended up in some shitty role or were lied to during the interview process.If the PM can resign after 6 weeks, you can hand in that resignation letter too. Separation of concerns also applies to organizations. I put in my 40 hours so that I have money to pay the bills, support my family, and have some fun hobbies. > Write small diffs (pull requests) (this one is actually good advice). Your friend is full of shit. > I honestly don't care that I had to take a paycut for it. Nothing will beat FAANG or the hedge funds in that respect. We trusted him over the years, defended him in various forums, cheered him on and here we are! It doesnt mean that you are THE King. It's not the only way to "succeed" at Meta but it's certainly the easiest way. At least, that's my impression from (mostly) the outside. Meta. As long as you dont mind being under her, you good. Optimizing for TC isn't necessarily bad, it may be the only option at a better life for some people. But I do think Google rewards good engineering. The word you may be thinking of is collectivism, as a counterpart to individualism, the axis of which obviously aligns much closer with the discussion we've been having above than anything on the capitalism/communism axis. I do think smaller paycheck and smaller company helps, but I'm sure the grass isn't always greener. I grew up on food-stamps and I was in debt for a very very long time in my adult life. Theres a chance this is just some intern trolling. Is this not a normal or good way of doing things? amazon rejection after onsite Wayfair Will be joining in a couple of weeks and just wondering how the morale is and if people are confident in general. Everyday I wake up and see her and I known I need to be there for her. Along the way, we collaborate with world-class engineers and designers to maximize each products impact on the world. There is certainly no law in the US like that unless youre on FMLA. To Zuck, this is great news (again, using Rao's lens). 2019. GCP? It will be fine in 1-2 years with refreshers.So why change jobs now and be the frontline of next cut. Unlikely manager can block you from receiving this. And it will be, to rip the bandage off. 12%. New Linkedin jobs added daily. General practitioners are in the above dataset, and make an amount comparable to an L5 Google SWE. My former colleagues are reaching out to see if I'd be interested in their gigs. Layoffs today. Above national average. If a higher TC means a longer commute, you are losing out on time that you could be doing things with your family. Google excels at producing a lot of well-designed, scale-hardened, well-tested code that doesn't do anything useful for the business and is a net drag on the company. Be kind . I do - you are advocating against people being able to spend as they see fit, by placing the commonwealth above the individual. Sure, if you believe that making more money is the only thing that matters in this world. You see, that moral line can be shifted all over the place. 1. Christina Ng Age isnt the key here, the persons maturity is. msg command windows 11 not recognized; fictional characters who suffered the most; delphi ds150e clone; husband refuses to acknowledge my feelings Two cultures that care a shit load about money and prestige. Because there doesn't seem to be any point anymore for this - again, I want to take a course with some tangible skills, but will need to make a case that for its job-relatedness. Having worked in several startups as well as F500 FAANG-ish valley tech companies, I agree. Osteoporosis I am sorry to hear about the layoffs just before the holidays specially for folks o, Hi everyone, as a black person on this app the comments I see from ppl who literally work at the companys Im interviewing with makes me so disheartened. Thanks to all of our teams across the globe! They just delivered on the biggest customer facing improvement of any single piece of technology in the last 5 years with their switch to Apple Silicon. Global politicians, brands and celebrities panic as they use Twitter to reach out to their followers. Even once all your needs are met, it still makes sense to further optimize TC because you save it and that translates into earlier retirement. That is why it's better to move metrics than do anything actually beneficial, everyone is justifying their high performance review. gmod cptbase. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law. Sorry but youre completely wrong about both your 5 years comment and your income range. That's assuming you have no problem working for FAANG period. There's a realistic possibility I might be too disabled to work next year or the following year. Dec 13, 2020 9 Comments. Lumping that all into "well they're evil and if you work for them so are you" is an easy out. I have never understood this single minded drive for Moar money. Maybe they'll join us one day soon. 2. It's like someone getting a job with a military defence contractor, then sitting at their desk doing crossword puzzles for a decade. Trying to understand what is realistic and what are the expectations.Amazon. Another tip is to look at the org chart. Im not a Twitter employee nor have I ever been but seeing their #oneteam and #lovewhereyouworked tweets on this night before the impending doom tomorrow is inspirational, sad, touching and frankly it feels like an end of an era. 1) 14 weeks severance pay ( minimum ) 2) PTO unused will be paid 3) rsu vesting allowed for next 14 weeks 4) 6 months of Medical premium paid in cash 5) Help to find a new job in other companies 6) Immigration help to people on work visa 7) Eligib, And its official. What an exclusive club! A company culture has to allow that. Yes, I know the service will still exist but this year, combined with, Havent seen any company do this.. TC 370k, One month ago just a handful of companies laying off Now, layoffs are one after another. And what are responsibilities of Senior Staff Engineer? I have several chronic medical problems. But I would bet a lot of money that it's mostly people who spend frivolously and selfishly so that their kids go to good schools and have good opportunities, but that others' kids don't get access to the same kinds of on-ramps to success. You're still an employee of BigCo, so they can't grant you tons of shares for a penny so the culture will never be the same. L5 SDM $285K. We should all be supportive of one another in these trying times. On the other hand, as a potential employee it doesn't hurt to ask during the hiring process if it matters to you. This was a _completely_ proactive move. Take matters into your own hands, and stop working even if not laid off. I have tried explaining her and talking to her many times but have given up. Depending on your state, you may still qualify even if you're getting severance. With such unpredictability in mind, all advice here on HN is anecdotal, and everyone has to optimize for their specific situation. Amazon L6 ; Amazon L7 ; Google L4; Google L5 ; Leetcode; Salary Comparison!! For many devs, especially non SV people (or even non US people), a TC of 250k+ is more than life changing. The common theme among comments are - - Blind is full of YOLO crowd - Change job if it's a really good deal (>50% hike) or your current place is hell (impacting your mental health).- Change job if it's a sinking ship, we are all Rats (the first one to jump). We can move quickly. Meta This is nihilistic and short sighted way to see the world. I think people forget just how many entities Google has purchased over the years, and how often the FTC has just let them get away with it. Was part of the layoffs at Stripe this morning. Tech I work in a job I like, in an industry I like, in a language I like at a very fair rate, so I'm not too concerned about it, but part of that is from figuring out what were dead-ends/non-starters for me, identifying niches, etc. For a more realistic look at physician income see, Those are income numbers for specialists (cf. The work is your family if it's a family business. If you want to make an argument that the overall career arc of a software engineer is better off than that of a physician, then that's a very different statement than GP made. Looking to connect with folks there but open to other non-tech roles in defense/defense-consulting. Have you heard it's 10x harder to get into Google than Harvard? In investment banking (my roommate works there) people call it 'face time'. Copyright 20082022, Glassdoor, Inc. "Glassdoor" and logo are registered trademarks of Glassdoor, Inc. Current Fulfillment Associate in Dallas, TX, Texas, Current Warehouse Associate in City of Industry, CA, California, Current Project Manager in New York, NY, New York State, Former Warehoue Associate in Jacksonville, FL, Florida, Current Principal Technical Program Manager in New York, NY, New York State, Current Fulfillment Associate in Appling, GA, Georgia, Current Warehouse Associate in Las Vegas, NV, Nevada, Former Sortation Associate in Hebron, KY, Kentucky, Learn How to State Your Case and Earn Your Raise, Climb the Ladder With These Proven Promotion Tips, company-updates.categories.employee-story, Accidental Death & Dismemberment Insurance. So true. My only reason to stay is my 2 yo Daughter. Coauthors of this report include survey analyst Deja Thomas, who was the project manager for this survey; associate survey director and research fellow Dean Bonner; and survey analyst Rachel Lawler. Hey, he/she figured it out. NVIDIA, Go to company page We partner closely with HwEng to support all existing platforms and NPIs.I am looking for a Principal Product Manager to partner with me on strategic product roadmap definitions, and green field new applications. BTW the person is not literally saying to do these things. - and I certainly don't feel 2-5% away from that, lemme tell ya. > But I would bet a lot of money that it's mostly people who spend frivolously and selfishly so that their kids go to good schools and have good opportunities, but that others' kids don't get access to the same kinds of on-ramps to success. An entry-level Product Manager salary in 2021 stands at $86,005 Base. $137,138 per year. I was on a user-facing team, and we hardly looked at metrics related to our product's usage. product manager Even wellness programs at the better companies have helped people lose weight and avoid chronic illness. It's kind of--insulting I guess, like my brain's ability to feel joy has gotten attenuated at some 1/x curve??? There is no natural post-innovation phase, you either have to compete for business, or you don't. Getting a higher TC does not take opportunities away from other people. That seems possible, but satirically posting self-aggrandizing BS on Blind is like satirically posting Pepe memes on 4Chan. I'd love to feel I'm part of something, but it's not the case. Not everyone is chasing a BMW or bragging rights. Consider tax and cost of life in NYC/SF/London where you won't be able to buy a house anyway, and you're left with 50k to save a year. The information provided is from their perspective. They stay in the office late to get in facetime. I just call that the "monopoly phase." Smartsheet, Go to company page The 80% are those people merely thinking about learning to code, only considering contributing to open source, abandoning starter kits and tutorials 3/4s of the way through, etc. Obviously dont flee. so, people join meta in droves to selflessly pursue Zuck's legless pipe dream? Highest Paying Data Scientist Jobs | Levels.fyi You're making a similar argument rich people make to defend their wealth: they earned it, they're comfortable, and they don't care what other people think. In other places, you're less likely to get such a TC. This is what a lot of people call politics (especially if theyre not succeeding in it), but for me its just part of the system barring any better alternatives that will allow organizing a big company. Business is business. I can also interview prep for 10-20 hrs a week worst case. Snap, Go to company page All else equal, easy to capture proxies make good metrics; however, the point is that all else will not be equal. When you join a new company, you will not always get the culture and things they optimize for. View 62 Open Positions. Nov 5, 2021 1. They keep you in a range but you need to look at it as a 4 year deal. If all of you who were spared by the layoff organize and make a plan to ALL quit on the same day, you will lose a little bit for sure but Elon would lose 44B. Completed a year? That's the key, and that's the hard part. I don't want them to endure the hell that I went through. You can order the product for as little as $36/bottle, and every order comes with a standard 60-day money-back guarantee, so youve got plenty of time to experience the benefits of KetoCharge. , Everyone should boycott Twitter so other CEOs and boards get the message that you cant just treat tech employees that bad. No group of thousands of humans will be politics-free. If everyone leaves overnight (even 95% might suffic, Why is Elon musk still on earth? I listened to Kara Swisher interview some top Apple execs who used to work closely with Steve Jobs recently. This can lead to bad engineering incentives like valuing system complexity over the actual problem you're trying to solve. Anyone have any suggestions? I always come off shocked at how awful people are on there. Peers won't complain openly to avoid bad vibes (why should they care), so even if there was time for scrutiny (there isn't), there's virtually no paper trail. They only accept something like 0.2 (or was it 0.2%?) During that the time it takes for a doctor to go through med school, residency and specialist training (after which they would have the income numbers you cited), the FAANG careerist would probably have risen through the ranks and have comparable income numbers anyway. Commits matter? If you hit your metrics your manager looks good, that means their manager is hitting their metrics, and so on. It was kind of like waking up to find out that my name and email address had been entered into an archive of humanity's most important code - all the critical stuff we would need to start over if a meteor struck and brought the dinosaurs back or whatever. Aveena shares her story about love, representation, and being stronger together.
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