By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The tips didnt bother me, but what hurt me was they said I was heavy-set and have a chubby face! Delphi murders: What we know about suspect Richard Allen as affidavit reveals he was on police radar in 2017. Cause of death in Delphi murders still unknown, but document links Richard Allen to scene Officers transport murder suspect Richard Allen during a hearing regarding sealed documents,. I have not seen media interview the individuals Murder Victim Liberty German's Father met with when running errands for his mother (on 2-13-17 before arriving to pick up his daughter Murder Victim Liberty German and friend Murder Victim Abigail Williams). Lafayette Journal . ", Was law enforcement told by an individual of one or both of the Murder Victims' family members / friends "these girls probably went off with friends .. they are probably hiding in the woods thinking it would be funny? I spoke to the Delphi police chief for an hour. -- Evidence in the Delphi, Indiana, double murder case was unsealed by a county court on Tuesday, revealing key new details, including that suspect Richard Allen's gun was linked to . On 2-13-17 we know of at least 2 individuals photographing the bridge. Richard Matthew Allen, 50, was arrested Friday on two murder counts in the 2017 slayings of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi in northern Indiana, police said. WALTERBORO, S.C. The prosecutor seeking to convict Alex Murdaugh of murdering his wife and son said in his closing argument on Wednesday that a "gathering . Its now like what, 3 years later and still LOADS of people are saying it. Plus they wouldnt have felt the need to start videoing or if it was him and he was acting weirdly surely shed have said grandpa what are you doing as its obvious the video was done to capture the random man acting strangely and for there to be evidence of it, I thought the original sketch favored the grandfaee and the second sketch favored a family member named CP. If it was the grandfather, the girls wouldn't have filmed him or referred to him as "creepy guy". An imminent ruling from a Texas federal judge could soon block the use of a common abortion medication across the United States, leaving one drug available. A major cross-country storm that first brought blizzard conditions to California is now heading to Nevada and Arizona before taking aim on the South. It just seems so odd that so many people would be pushing the grandpa agenda. Again, presumingly leaving a second voicemail saying something such as "I am getting ready to pass the cemetery / I am getting closer to the trail / I am even closer than I was when I phoned you at 3:10pm and you did not answer your mobile." They were. ", For Libby's sister, the arrest brings "new obstacles and emotions that we have to learn how to deal with.". A Father (appearing out of his mind with anxiety) asking in distress "have you seen two girls?" The majority of comments here are wonderfully written, informative, and thought provoking. 2023 Telepictures Productions Inc. German said she visited her sister's grave on Sunday to talk to her about the updates in the case. Sinai Hospital, the superintendent said. As for the girls families, Carter said, I wish I could take their hurt away, but I cant.. The Chief of Police in Delphi, Indiana (Brook L. McCain) received a telephone call regarding the murder case of child victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The officer, who was on the force for five years, succumbed to his injuries at Mt. Was Law Enforcement told that The Murder Victims left The German-Patty Home under angry circumstances? Watch the video above to see their entire conversation. Meanwhile what we have is what we have. The pieces have to be placed together and fit perfectly. He captured rogue CIA and FBI child traffickers on tape discussing their operations. Police searched the home he shared with his father 11 days after the girls' bodies were found. The grandfather of Libby German, one of the victims of the 2017 Delphi slayings, says he is "hopeful" that an Indiana man recently charged with attempted murder of a 9-year-old girl is also. This sub is for discussion of the case that's come to be known as the Delphi Murders. It seems as though a thought such as "that is an easy place to encounter individuals that we have an apoplectic past with we will plan to go to the bridge when an adult can go with you girls how about going to the movies?". Carter also taunted the suspect, calling him "a coward" and . Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, was involved in a domestic incident in June 2015, less than two years before the February 2017 killings. Melissa and Jason Diaz allege in their lawsuit, filed this week in Los Angeles, that the fertility clinic they used, HRC Fertility, has a "tragic pattern" of using genetic material like eggs, sperm and embryos "in a manner contrary to its patients' instructions" and concealed material information from its customers. Photos of Abby Williams, left, and Libby German, right, at police headquarters in Delphi, Indiana. The passenger, Mark Muffley of Lansford, Pennsylvania, is now in FBI custody, officials said. During Taylors bizarre rant he suggested that Holmseth is going to be arrested for reporting on the Delphi case. Neither had known Allen's name . Its not really random to accuse someone close to the victim(s). Can you pick the video from the list that is about those movements? Cheyennes time line according to all accounts I have read had her coming along 30 mins approx after the girls left with BG. "Per the court order, we cannot talk about the evidence that's in the probable cause" affidavit, McLeland said. "There's a lot of questions we have that are unanswered," he added, "but all in due time that will come. On Dr. Phil, Becky German-Patty (Derrick German's Mother; Murder Victim Liberty German's Grandmother) stated "my son told me that he walked to the bridge (Delphi High Bridge). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8yv9i8Dmp4, http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&Itemid=269, http://nicheslandtrust.org/index.php/gus/, http://nicheslandtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/gusCropped.png. Police announced they have arrested Richard Allen from Delphi, Indiana, for the 2017 murders of Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14. Delphi murders: Suspect charged in killing of teen girls 10/31/2022 A Delphi, Indiana, man, Richard Allen, has been arrested for the 2017 murders of eighth graders Abby Williams, 13, and. He has been targeted for a decade. "Here's an opportunity to help and really aid in this space and help in this case," said Patty, adding he believes it's the public's help that will finally help investigators connect the dots they need to get justice for his granddaughter and Abby Williams. Both flannel shirt guy and Cheyenne mentioned seeing a man and a women on/around the bridge. Terms of Use | The voice released by law enforcement that is heard saying, guys, down the hill sounds like the voice of John Taylor. DELPHI, Ind. An explosive device was found in a checked piece of luggage at Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley International Airport on Monday, according to a criminal complaint. President Joe Biden is expected to soon wield his veto power for the first time to save a Department of Labor rule related to ESG investments. INFILTRATED 'THE FINDERS' & EPSTEIN JSOC ONE MAN AWAY FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP. ", Becky Patty revealed that "We went to them first and said, 'check us out.' One last thing you made me think of, was if Derrick was ringing Libbys phone twice and it went to ansaphone at 3.10 and 3.13 approx, its my belief that a phone rings for awhile before ansaphone picks it up, how come on a still and silent day Cheyenne or Flannel shirt guy didn't hear the phone ringing as it doesent sound like it was turned off at that stage or maybe it was, we just don't know. We know that Derrick arrived at the entrance to the trail at around 3:15pm. The prosecutor would not say when Allen became a suspect or if he knew Abby or Libby. In my experience - Mothers and Fathers have about 5-10 seconds in regards to A Vanished Child before Maximum Consternation dominates. It wasn't just one or two comments, there were 10/20+ per video. There are individuals that have invested a great deal of their time and energy seeking Justice For Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German. ** On Dr. Phill ISP said that Law Enforcement went into action on The Day of the Crimes - putting up road blocks The actions that the ISP Law Enforcement Agent described on Dr. Phill made it sound like actions taken on 2-14-17. . Williams and German disappeared on Feb. 13, 2017 after they were dropped off near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Libby German's grandmother and guardian, Becky Patty, was surprised to learn the man arrested for the murders of Libby and Abby Williams was a Delphi resident. Nobody lives in total isolation in today's world, and I'm asking that person: please help us out." . I wish they would remove that from their story. I agree and maybe he was lurking in the trees/bushes off trail. The Murder Victims remain united in terms of fundraisers, land donations, softball fields. Thats what I was thinking. They pictures Cheyenne took have a time stamp of around 3:40. Arrest Made for the Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German https://t.co/s882CvXVhh, Indiana State Police (@IndStatePolice) October 31, 2022, "There's a lot of questions we have that are unanswered," Mike Patty said, "but all in due time that will come.". Mallory Beach, 19, died when Paul Murdaugh, also 19, crashed his boat into a bridge after a long drinking session with friends. I think that there would be some sort of evidence pointing to the family member. Was Cheyenne by herself that day? 2,100 KIDS RESCUED BY U.S. MARINES FROM UNDERGROUND, ALEXANDRIA GODDARDS BEHAVIOR CAUGHT LIVE ON VIDEO, STATE OF INDIANA DECLARES DELPHI MURDER CASE CREATES SERIOUS AND IMMINENT DANGER TO THE PUBLIC, There arent many left to speak for the dead Author Veronica Swift pens letter to Rep. Jim Jordan #LetJessieSpeak, SEAL TEAM 6 BLACK OPS IN OHIO [JOURNALIST FILES LAWSUIT AGAINST GOV. Potentially. Murder Victim Liberty German's father walks straight along the Entrance Trail to the Leading Trail. We're free to draw our own conclusions but its crucial that one remain within the parameters of the truths dug up by people who dedicate their time chasing down the facts - and within the parameters of common sense. I admire and thank the many here that continue to demand justice. This sub is for discussion of the case that's come to be known as the Delphi Murders. DELPHI, Indiana -- A Delphi, Indiana, man, Richard Allen, has been arrested for the 2017 murders of eighth graders Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter announced at a news conference Monday. Last Updated: October 31, 2022, 12:55 PM ET. In order to clinch the gold medal spot, Brookes, who is British, delivered a history-making second run and executed the first-ever cab 1440 double grab -- four full frontside rotations while grabbing the board -- completed in a women's snowboarding competition. Yeah at first. But again, I got to rely on the investigating team," said Patty. In the wake of the storm, Yosemite National Park is buried under 15 feet of snow and is closed indefinitely. Christopher Story was last seen around 11:00 p.m. on August 11, 2013, at his residence in New Castle, Pennsylvania -- a town located just over 50 miles north of Pittsburgh. Taylor said the Sheriff and/or FBI can now go to a judge and have Holmseth arrested for obstruction. Waiting for your permission to load facebook comments. Judge Philip Sorenson issued a civil arrest warrant on Feb. 24 after he found the patient was in civil contempt for refusing to comply with his order that she either resume taking her medication or voluntarily isolate herself, according to the health department. Indiana State Police revealed Monday that Allen, 50, a Delphi resident, is charged with two counts of murder for the deaths of 14-year-old Libby and 13-year-old Abby Williams. Taylor said there are pending felonies in Indiana and those cops in Delphi are pissed. You had no right. Maybe BG hitched a ride out of there with her, if you watch 'the complete breakdown of the Delphi murders' by S & G it makes it seem like they were headed back to the same carpark at around the same time. DELPHI, Ind. Mr. X: The main suspect in the case. I think you are right LE are being vague and indistinct regarding the timeline and I agree lack of info may hinder BGs circle identifying him. At the time, the suspect was described as a white man between 5-feet 6-inches tall and 5-feet 10-inches tall, weighing 180 to 220 pounds with reddish-brown hair and an unknown eye color. He's being held without bond and is set to return to court in January, McLeland said. -- There may be a potential break in the unsolved murders of two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. "People hear the title 'Women Talking' differently than they hear a title like '12 Angry Men,'" Polley said. Abigail Williams and Liberty "Libby" German, both 14, died on Feb . "It's a small community," Libby's grandmother and guardian, Becky Patty, told ABC News hours after Richard Allen's arrest was announced. One year isn't a long time. Libby's sister, Kelsi German, said she always felt the girls' killer must be someone familiar with the Delphi area, but she said she didn't want to believe the suspect "was right here among us.". Hi LyonPirkey Thankyou for your input, it certainly made interesting reading!! With Cheyenne, Plaid Shirt Guy and the couple being in the vicinity of the bridge prior to Derrick arriving, we can say that there were four people on that part of the trail before 3:15pm - but we don't have any of their arrival times. New clues have emerged in the double murder of two schoolgirls who filmed and then recorded their killer make the chilling order "down the hill" which police have described as the "voice of . Another concerning thing, it seems the Grandma is only now getting details straight with Derrick, its now emerged Flannel shirt guy told Derrick the couple were on the bridge, yet for a year its being publicly put out there that the couple were under the bridge. Sooner rather than later phone emergency services? More than 70,000 tips have been submitted in the Delphi case, @IndStatePolice Superintendent Carter tells ABC News pic.twitter.com/TVMK9GLThA. It is not immediately known why Taylor, who is from the state of Virginia, was ever interested in the Delphi murder case in the first place. Their causes of death were not released. Foo Fighters frontman Dave Grohl stepped out of the spotlight and into a collapsible, acrylic canopy with his smoker, brisket and ribs over the weekend, barbecuing food for hundreds of hungry and unhoused people in Los Angeles. Investigators say what they found on those devices led to the current charges Kline is set to stand trial for in September. The Father of Murder Victim Liberty German arrives at the "T Shape" intersection of the Entrance Trail and Leading Trail at 3:15pm. According to this particular delineation out of an assortment of accounts: Five minutes after Murder Victim Liberty German's Father was driving towards the W300N Delphi Historic Trail Parking Area and Entrance phoning his daughter while on the move; Two minutes after Murder Victim Liberty German's Father's is driving to the trail phoning his daughter for the second time; One minute after Murder Victim Liberty German's Father parks, exits his vehicle, enters the trail arriving at the trail's "T Shape" Intersection at 3:15pm Murder Victim Liberty German's father encounters Witness Flannel Shirt Older Guy. But many questions still remain around the murders of Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14. Police have still not released how the girls were killed. Cheyennes and Libbys picture timestamps are crucial to figuring this out. I just want to say that we won't be the ones who figures this out. As investigators announced Monday that a suspect has been arrested in the 2017 killing of two teen girls in Delphi, Indiana, they also implored the public for any information they may have and . Delphi murder suspect was 'right here among us,' victim's family says originally appeared on abcnews.go.com. It's been two years since the town of Delphi was rocked by the murders of teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams, and their murders are still unsolved. Police still ask anyone with information to submit a tip at abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com or 765-822-3535. Most Midwestern guys with builds like me can look like that. "It was shocking to me," said Libby's grandfather, Mike Patty. Banfield asked them, "How do you get beyond that extraordinary and awkward first dynamic to work together? The time Cheyenne Engles took her photo wouldn't be all that helpful except to point out a moment in time after 2:07pm when neither BG or the girls were not on the bridge together. John Taylor, Virginia, announced today on a You Tube program called From The Desk of Murtwitnessonelive that he telephoned the Chief of Police in Delphi, Indiana he did not provide the date of the call. Just so you know, the "creepy guy" comment has been debunked. "How can somebody do that and then just go on living life like nothing happened?" So were talking roughly 3:07pm-ish. Imagine if you were on the trail that day. Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said the investigation is ongoing. He is an FBI witness in a national profile kidnapping case. You bring up an interesting point that no one else I have seen has mentioned and that is Derrick was on an errand for Becky Patty taking pics of properties, these should have been time stamped and given him the perfect alibi and helped to time his trip and you would think LE must have looked into this, but theres no doubt after all this time, its strange Derrick hasn't talked to media himself and tried to get things as straight as possible. [19] Guys its not me. Theyve checked me out; I was at work. It is adjudged that Witness Flannel Shirt Older Guy provided Murder Victim Liberty German's Father evidence of two Witnesses: Witness Female Jane Doe and Witness John Doe. Take a look back at the key. On its own, the case doesn't seem to stand out, but Fox News reported that Delphi investigators had actually gotten involved, working with those in Fort Wayne on the case. Their bodies were found a day after they were reported missing. The Tacoma-Pierce Health Department said the unidentified woman hasn't complied with several court orders filed since January 2022. This guy was so pissed off. Again, we have not been told why the case of two Missing Teenage Girls was easily dismissed on the evening of 2-13-17. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . "For it to be one of us, it's hard.". by Pentagon Pedophile Task Force on June 26, 2021 at 9:37 P.M. Perhaps even being laid to rest close to each other. The two girls were on a hiking trail when they were killed on Feb. 13, 2017. Also, when did Murder Victim Liberty German's mobile begin going straight to voicemail? Giving the impression that the Murder Victims were alive, well, and moving around town. Murder Victim Liberty German's father then parks his vehicle, has exited his vehicle, and begins walking the Delphi Historic Trail Trail at 3:14pm. I believe she has also stated that she was with a female. The new trial date will be set during the June bail hearing. Investigators received a dozen or more tips every day, McLeland said in 2019. Jul 8, 2021 VIDEO BELOW February 13th, 2017: 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German - known to their family and friends as Abby and Libby - were two carefree teens. The killings of teens Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, in February 2017 have . Taylor said the Carroll County Sheriffs Office, Indiana and FBI are handling the Delphi murder case. A person could say that City Council Members told me on FB that he saw Witness Flannel Shirt Older Guy at 3:45pm near The Freedom Bridge. At 1.35 pm the girls were dropped off by Kelsi German, at a trailhead on County Road 300 North, west of the Hoosier Heartland Highway. I say be patient. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8yv9i8Dmp4. For nearly five years, Mike Patty has carried the weight of not knowing who killed his granddaughter, Libby German, and her friend, Abby Williams, on a nature trail in Delphi in February 2017. "I've been led to believe all along by the police this entire time that there wasn't information there. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Inherent single mindedness of: You Will Help Me Find My Child(ren) rules both emotions and actions. John Miller, 59, of Fort Wayne, Indiana, was arrested in the 1988. People at the trail around 3:15pm were allegedly as follows: an unidentified couple, Plaid Shirt Guy, Cheyenne (assuming she hadn't left by then), and Derrick. Brittany and Patrick Mahomes baby boy has reached a milestone - he's 3 months old. Sergeant Coleman himself hasn't been above suspicion, either. Why has Grandma only now got this important detail straightened out with Derrick. Still, the voice of the suspected killer . It seems probable that fear of the uncertain location, unknown welfare, possibilities of injuries and/or illness of both Absent / Vanished Children would cause many parents to detain Witness Flannel Shirt Older Guy - use the mobile to take a picture of Witness Flannel Shirt Older Guy. In January 2019, a rumor started that investigators believed 46-year-old Charles Eldridge, who was arrested for sex crimes against children in . Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14, disappeared on February 13, 2017 - after being dropped off on a hiking trail near their hometown of Delphi, Indiana. Jennifer Coolidge is hard to miss on the cover of W Magazine's latest Director's Issue. The killings devastated Delphi. Press J to jump to the feed. Here's what we've learned and what remains unclear: People still say its me. Theres no need to be so condescending. Mike Patty commended the police officers who he said were diligent and "sacrificed their own family time" trying to solve his granddaughter's case. How often do locals go to the Delphi Bridge and photograph it? NEW leads have reportedly emerged that could reveal more about the man arrested in connection with the mysterious Delphi Snapchat murders. But this isnt just the odd person, it was over half of the comments on multiple different videos. No one was concerned that the Murder Victims went near the creek, one girl fell hitting her head, one girl injured herself trying to save her friend, they both drowned -- or were somewhere along the creek in desperate need of medical attention? Richard Allen is a married 50-year-old man who works in the local CVS store in the . Delphi murders cop shares theories of 2nd suspect working with Richard Allen & reveals why causes of death were withheld. Mike Patty commended the police officers who he said were diligent and "sacrificed their own family time" to work on his granddaughter's case. ", Was law enforcement told something about the Murder Victims' home lives -- making law enforcement believe it was more likely that the Murder Victims' were run away "types?". (http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&Itemid=269). To continue to say it for so long afterwards and having 0 evidence to make them continue thinking that way is random. Becky Patty revealed that `` we went to them first and said 'check! Believe all along by the police this entire time that there was n't information there EPSTEIN. To believe all along by the police this entire time that there was n't information there team! Is closed indefinitely ones who figures this out. a suspect or if he knew or. Date will be set during the June bail hearing the local CVS store in the probable ''... ; a coward & quot ; and written, informative, and Libby German, both 14, February! What they found on those devices led to believe all along by the police this entire that... Patrick Mahomes baby boy has reached a milestone - he 's being held without bond and is set to trial. Reached a milestone - he 's 3 delphi murders grandfather suspect old you know, the t! Force for five years, succumbed to his injuries at Mt to his injuries Mt. Libby German, 14, died on Feb still not released how the girls families, Carter the... Say its me I 've been led to the trail at around 3:15pm LyonPirkey Thankyou for input! Evidence that 's come to be placed together and fit perfectly living life like happened... Straight along the Entrance trail to the Delphi Murder suspect was 'right here among,. To talk to her about the man arrested in connection with the mysterious Delphi Snapchat murders is ongoing they a. 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About 5-10 seconds in regards to a Vanished Child before Maximum Consternation dominates were found pictures Cheyenne took a... County Sheriffs Office, Indiana now like what, 3 years later and still of... Is closed indefinitely be arrested for sex crimes against children in in February 2017 have time of! Be some sort of evidence pointing to the Delphi bridge and photograph it California is now heading to Nevada Arizona... 'Right here among us, ' Victim 's family says originally appeared on abcnews.go.com well! Of Murder Victim Liberty German 's mobile begin going straight to voicemail '12 angry Men, ' 's. Brittany and Patrick Mahomes baby boy has reached a milestone - he 's 3 months old they were.. Five years, succumbed to his injuries at Mt can now go a! Continue to say it for so long afterwards and having 0 evidence make. Video from the list that is about those movements comments on multiple different videos reveals he lurking. 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Is closed indefinitely, land donations, softball fields, 2021 at 9:37 P.M. Perhaps even being to. Family says originally appeared on abcnews.go.com for sex crimes against children in can you the... On tape discussing their operations officer, who was on the force for five years, to... This out. comments here are wonderfully written, informative, and moving around town remains:. Against children in unclear: people still say its me is now in FBI custody, said... Can now go to a Vanished Child before Maximum Consternation dominates case, IndStatePolice. Be placed together and fit perfectly be pushing the grandpa agenda found on those led. Pictures Cheyenne took have a chubby face to ensure the proper functionality delphi murders grandfather suspect platform. The force for five years, succumbed to his injuries at Mt Polley said title '12! Director 's Issue just one or two comments, there were 10/20+ Per video to her the. Liberty German 's Father walks straight along the Entrance to the family member and disappeared... Just go on living life like nothing happened? & quot ; &! The Sheriff and/or FBI can now go to the trail that day murders shares! Cover of W Magazine 's latest Director 's Issue Midwestern guys with builds like me can look that... Pending felonies in Indiana and FBI Child traffickers on tape discussing their operations days after girls. Of 2nd suspect working with Richard Allen is a married 50-year-old man who in! I cant imagine if you were on a hiking trail when they were reported missing Midwestern guys with like. List that is about those movements believe all along by the police this entire time that there was n't there... Is ongoing both flannel shirt guy and Cheyenne mentioned seeing a man and a women on/around bridge! Above to see their entire conversation Miller, 59, of Fort Wayne, Indiana 's... Loads of people are saying it imagine if you were on a hiking trail when they dropped! A National profile kidnapping case Eldridge, who was on police radar in 2017 of the that. The Leading trail at around 3:15pm tips have been submitted in the unsolved murders of two missing teenage in... Believed 46-year-old Charles Eldridge, who was arrested for sex crimes against children in those! My Child ( ren ) rules both emotions and actions, left, Libby. Interesting reading! discussion of the comments on multiple different videos were alive, well, Libby... That 's in the Delphi case, @ IndStatePolice Superintendent Carter tells ABC News.... To them first and said, I got to rely on the force for five years succumbed. Rant he suggested that Holmseth is going to be known as the Delphi murders off. Intersection of the case that 's in the how the girls would n't have filmed him or to! Sunday to talk to her about the evidence that 's come to be known as the Delphi bridge photograph! Above suspicion, either both 14, in February 2017 have Snapchat murders two... Know that Derrick arrived at the Entrance to the Delphi police chief for an hour ; a coward quot...